Five Questions for Eleanor McCullen: Sidewalk Counselor and Pro-Life Advocate

For more than 20 years, Eleanor McCullen has advocated for life outside of abortion facilities in Massachusetts..She's not a sign-waving protester. McCullen works as a sidewalk counselor, approaching women entering abortion facilities and trying to understand their difficult position. After a few minutes of discussion, she gently introduces the baby and encourages the woman to visit a crisis pregnancy center for an ultrasound..A NewBostonPost reporter spoke with McCullen by telephone on Thursday, June 8, 2023, the twenty-third anniversary of when she first began her ministry. Even though the interview took place more than a year ago, it has never been published before now..A full transcript of the discussion is below. The questions are in bold..1. Your pro-life ministry began more than twenty years ago when you became a sidewalk counselor, praying outside of a Planned Parenthood facility. What led you to do it? What does a sidewalk counselor do, and what is your daily routine?.Let's see, it all began 23 years ago, actually, today. It was at Mass; I'm Catholic, and everything was going along Catholic-wise. But I knew about Jesus, but I really didn't know him. So, 23 years ago today, I was at Mass, and it was a rather dramatic empowering of the Holy Spirit that came upon me. I was at Mass, and I couldn't move, and I was restrained, and I felt warm, and it was beautiful. And I just didn't know what was happening. So, I would say: I've had a strong encounter with the Holy Spirit on this Wednesday night 23 years ago. And it's beautiful. It's hard to describe. Some people say it's like all these knots from this force. So, I think that's what happened to me. .So, I, you know, it's a wonderful feeling, and I went to a priest friend of mine. I said, "What do you think that is or was — what's happening?" .And he said, "Well, Eleanor, it's really not about you. The Holy Spirit is coming upon you, so you can give out and build up the Kingdom of God." .So I said, "You're kidding me." .I had no idea what that meant 23 years ago. So I said, "Well, what do you suggest?" .He said, "Well, you have to go out into the community." He suggested praying in front of Planned Parenthood. He actually mentioned several things, and I pretty much … I wasn't happy with what he was suggesting. Well, finally, he came to praying outside of Planned Parenthood, and he also suggested going to a church and doing a Bible study — something like that. .So, I said, "Well, all right, I can do that." So, that's how my sidewalk counseling started. .So, I called Bill Cotter. He's in charge of the sidewalk people at 1055 Commonwealth Avenue in Brighton. So, I just said, "I'd like to come and pray outside of Planned Parenthood." So, that's what I did. And I did it twice a week. Prayer is so powerful. And I did it for six months until one day, someone was sick, and they asked me if I could greet the people that were going in. And it was rather scary because I'd never done that before. And, Father — it's Father Tom DeLorenzo that I was talking to — and he said, "Well, always take a step in faith. Just step out, and then the Lord will honor your faith, and he will lead you, and he will take care of everything." So, that's what I did. .I began that morning. It was, I guess it would have been January 2001 by now; it was a January snowy day. And the first couple that I met, I was able to talk to them about having the baby, taking them to the Pregnancy Center, seeing the ultrasound, and they decided to keep their baby boy. That was 20 … Well, I guess I talked with him at Christmas time. He's like almost 24. So, that was my beginning of becoming a sidewalk counselor. .And I go two days a week, Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, and I have signs on my car. My signs are very easy to read. It's "Life is Precious." "It's a Boy." "It's a Girl." "Celebrate Life."."Hope, Health, and Love." That's the card I hand out with my telephone number on it — Eleanor, and then my telephone number, and it's the card that says "Hope, Health, and Love." .And I just greet people very gently and lovingly. When you're a sidewalk counselor, there's no room for anger or judgment. You have to be very compassionate and listen. Listen to the woman, the mother, and the father that are talking to you. And then try to overcome some of their objections. And it's very important to be a good listener and certainly not judgmental in any way. Because you're there in a very difficult position. They're making a decision of life and death, so you're trying to hold their hand in just a short period of time. So, they trust you, and then, of course, if we can get to the crisis pregnancy center and see the ultrasound … and then it goes on from there. But … and that's the blessing of the whole situation, but … So, I hand out a little … my card, "Eleanor," and then I hand out a little brochure called "Watch Me Grow." .My first concern is the mother. I'm really interested in her. I do not mention the baby. I don't even … I just say, "How are you? What can I do for you? What brought you here this morning? Do you think you're pregnant?".And it's all about the mother. It's all about the woman. The baby is never mentioned. Because I am building up a trust with her and am very interested to know what brought her there. And what can I … you know, how is she feeling? And what's going on? So, that's my first five minutes of talking. And then, we certainly can … you know … if I get past the five minutes, which I usually do, then I might say something, "Well, how far along do you think you are?" And then, I have the little brochure called "Watch Me Grow," and then, I can just slowly open it and say, "Oh, look at that. You say you're eight weeks. Oh my goodness, the heart's beating at eight weeks. Actually, the heart's beating around five weeks. Oh my gosh, that's so exciting." So, that's how I will introduce a little bit of the baby. Slowly, but certainly, first of all, I am very concerned about the mother and, of course, the father of the baby, or, you know, whoever is standing right in front of them — very interested in them first. That's the secret. The woman is a very important part of the whole situation. Her story is very important..2. People can see what sidewalk counselors do outside of abortion facilities, but most don't see what happens afterward. You've talked about developing friendships with women planning to have an abortion through your conversations with them. Describe one or two..Everybody going in, I always just say, "Good morning. How can I help you this morning?" That's all I say..It's not important to say anymore. That's since they know that you're there for them. So, many times, as you can imagine, they just walk in — "No, thank you. We're fine.".But then, by the grace of God, somebody will say, "Yes, how can you help me?" .So … and then I bring them down a little way from Planned Parenthood, and then we begin — where I begin to listen to her story and then talk a little bit about the baby with the "Watch Me Grow" pamphlet. And then, I say, "Well, if you have about 40 minutes, we could go over to Pregnancy Health" — which is associated with the Archdiocese, it's right in Brighton — "We could go over and talk to somebody there and see how we can help you. And you could see the ultrasound." And then, I start painting a picture. "You could see the ultrasound. You could hear the baby's heart beating 151 times a minute. Let's go. Do you have a car, or do you want to ride with me?" .So I kind of move it along that way. So generally … sometimes they have their own car, and they follow me, but I usually take them in my car over to Pregnancy Health — very well served over there; I love going over there. They're very compassionate and very friendly, and very filled with joy. And that's what we need at this time. We need joy in the life of this future mother. So, when we go over, it's an interesting thing because when I have the young lady in my car, she looks scared, and she looks troubled, and she can't believe that she's riding over to get an ultrasound. Once we get there, it's an incredible situation. Her face becomes relaxed; she's smiling. She knows she's with people who really care about her, and her baby, and her situation. So, then, yeah, so I take them there. We do see the ultrasound. .And the important part after that — after you see the ultrasound, in 23 years, everyone that I've been through, the ultrasound counts for, you know, a million bucks. Once you hear that baby's heart beating … I guess sometimes people still go ahead with the abortion, but I have never experienced it — and then, the important part is aftercare. I mean, it's one thing to say, "Oh good, you're going to keep the baby. That's wonderful. I'll pray for you." But what they need now is practical help. And fortunately, my husband and I are able to do that. What does that mean? That means I tell her in the car, "Regardless of how you decide after the ultrasound, if you're going to have the baby, I'll make sure you have everything. Everything that you need. In fact, I can help you now if there's a situation that you're feel bad about." So, holding their hand for nine months and beyond. And most of those couples, they end up being fine. I'd say 98 percent, they say, "Thank you for being there. I have my baby boy." "It's fine. I got the job." "I went back to school." And there's always a few that I still hear from. And so, yeah, aftercare: making sure they have everything that they need, holding their hand, being there, calling them every other week. Make sure they're taking their vitamins, just keeping up with them. That's what happens after I talk to them, and that's by the grace of God. .As I said earlier, most people just aren't interested, but then they come out after they have had the abortion … many times come over and put their head on my shoulder and say, "I can't believe I did that." And then, of course, the regret sets in. So, that's another whole conversation. But, yeah, so I'm able, by the grace of God, to help many people. I have many pictures of babies on my refrigerator. One baby is named Eleanor; one baby is named Joseph, after my husband..3. In 2008, Massachusetts established a "buffer zone" around abortion facilities where sidewalk counselors and other protesters could not enter. The buffer zone remained for six years before the U.S. Supreme Court overturned it, 9-0, in a case named in part for you. During your testimony during Kentanji Brown Jackson's U.S. Supreme Court nomination hearing on March 24, 2022, you described this time as a "painful reality of being unable to give women the love and support they seek." What did you do during the time state and local authorities prohibited you from getting close to abortion facilities? Were you ever tempted to give up?.Well, no, I was never tempted to give up. I can answer that pretty quickly. However, yeah, it was difficult because it was a 35-foot buffer zone. And so you had to stand outside of that. And then, if someone came in a car, I could say, "Can I help you?" But if they were walking, you had to, you know … "Can I help you?" And it seemed like we were yelling, but we weren't. You did not have the intimacy of speaking one-on-one like we do now. So, the buffer zone was a nuisance, or … but you know what? When you believe in Jesus … my feeling was Jesus can trump the buffer zone. Somehow we'll survive it, you know. We're not going to get ourselves all upset about it. Somehow it will work out all right. I mean, that's our faith, and that's how I believe. So, yeah, it was difficult. And then … I guess we had that for quite a while, and then one of the pro-life lawyers had called me and said, "Eleanor, it really is not … It's against First Amendment — you're pushed back on a public sidewalk like that." .And he said, "We should challenge that." .Now, my first reaction was, "Oh, that's O.K.. Let's deal with it." Then, about two days later, I woke up in the morning at about 2 o'clock, and I said, "Wait a minute, you know, he's right. Why should we put up with something that's unconstitutional?" And you know, I think a lot of things like that are what we do: Something comes along, and we say, "Oh, that's all right. That's O.K,," And then, all of a sudden, you wake up, and you have an elephant in the room, and you say, "How did that happen?" Because we compromise, and we sometimes — we don't even know we're doing it. .So, I called them, and I said, "Yeah, I think you're right." So, that's how our process began, and it took seven years. And then I always say that anything worthwhile takes a long time, and the middle name for all of us working out on the sidewalk is Perseverance. And so, we persevered. We went to all the courts in Massachusetts, like … Oh, I don't know, the federal court, the appeals court, and each one said, "No, we're keeping the buffer zone. It seems like it's working out O.K.; we're just going to keep it." So, I said, "All right, well, I guess we did the best we could." But then sometimes you wonder, how do you know what your best is? So, the lawyers — by this time, I had two lawyers — and they said, "No, no, we're going to go to the Supreme Court." So, I said, "Really?" I said, "O.K." So that's what they did. .And now, when we started the Supreme Court process, we went … we had seven lawyers, and they were all pro bono … and they're all First Amendment rights lawyers … and they're all pro-lifers. So, that was good. And so, we did go; I think it was January of 2015, and they argued the case McCullen versus Coakley. It was rather exciting in Washington to have all the Supreme Court justices right up on the stage. And, yeah, it was rather exciting. Then you have to wait until June to see how they render the vote. So it turned out that it was one of the few, maybe … I don't know, it could be the only one — it was unanimous, 9-0, in favor of McCullen … and take down that buffer zone!. So, yeah, that was exciting, too. We got a unanimous vote. And going back to the day they were arguing the case, Justice Scalia, the other side McCullen versus Coakley, the lawyer for Massachusetts — because we were actually suing Massachusetts — she would say, "the protesters." She said it three times! Three times Justice Scalia, you know, he banged … "Please do not call them protesters. They are counselors. They are trying to help women that have a major decision going on." So, of course, that was wonderful. Three times, he had to do that because they kept calling us "protesters" instead of "counselors." So, yeah, and then, as a result of that case, McCullen versus Coakley, throughout the United States — it wasn't only Massachusetts — buffer zones came down. Or if they were thinking of buffer zones — like Portland, Maine, is thinking of one right now. And if they're thinking of it and then they remember the McCullen case, they figure they might as well not waste their time because it's not going to go through. So, it kind of is the domino effect. Once you win something, it goes across the country. So, it's rather … you know, exciting. .So, yeah. But we manage. When you're following Jesus, somehow you can do it. But at the same time, this is wonderful because then you're right there with somebody. You can be a friend, an instant friend. "Hello. How can I help you?" Instead of … you're right there. "What brought you here today?" Your intimacy with the situation unfolds rather quickly. And they can trust you quickly, and then you can go get the ultrasound. So, it's much nicer not to have that. .Or the other part, when the buffer zone was there, you'd be talking to somebody, and then I'd have to stop, and they'd say, "Well, why are you stopping?" I'd say, "Well, I can't go over the yellow line." They said, "Oh, well, I have an appointment. I have to go in." So, you lost your momentum when they had the buffer zone. This way, you can just, one-on-one in a few minutes, try to … I'm a grandmother type, so I try to, you know, I like them to think they can trust me, and I'll hold their hand, and everything's going to be all right. So, that's how we got through. It's a beautiful … it's a beautiful experience..4. You are a lay member of the Franciscans, a religious order of the Roman Catholic Church. You also served as vice minister of a Franciscan monastery in Kennebunk, Maine. How does being a Franciscan affect your life?.Yeah, well, that's a beautiful chapter in my life. After going back, when I said 23 years ago, I fell in love with Jesus Christ. I wanted to do something deeper. Of course, I'm married. I've been married 65 years: three children and grandchildren. So I … but I didn't know what to do. And then, of course, the Holy Spirit pointed me in the direction of being a Franciscan, a lay Franciscan. And that was exciting. That happened actually 20 years ago — the end of July. And my monastery, the Franciscan Monastery, is up in Maine, in Kennebunkport, St. Anthony. And it's a very important part of who I am because you take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, and your prayer life is deeper. You're encouraged. .Prayer is so important, and I think being a Franciscan, it's just introduced me to deep prayer in the morning, even before I begin my day, especially doing the sidewalk work. Prayer, you have to begin each day with prayer, and then if prayer becomes so normal for you, you pray all during the day: "Lord, help me. Lord, be with me. Lord, show me the way. Guide my trip." It's just a deep way to live where the Lord becomes just so close to you. And I think the Franciscan way of life … I chose Franciscan because St. Francis — he did prayer and action. He prayed in the night and early morning, but then in the daytime, he had action. He went and worked with the lepers, or he worked with the poor, and I kind of like that. I like the prayer part, and then I like the action part, where you can put your faith into action and reach out. .So, yeah … oh, yeah, and I kept in touch with my friends, just good friends, and it's good to be affirmed by people that know Jesus and their faith is deep, and that's another good part because, in this world, it's upside down. Wherever you are, it's important to be surrounded by people that also follow Jesus, so you can affirm one another in your faith. And I would say the Franciscan lifestyle does that for me, too..5. You're well-known for counseling pregnant women contemplating abortion, but you also provide assistance to prisoners, some of whom have received college degrees and some of whom have authored books. When did you begin to counsel prisoners, where do you do it, and why?.Yeah, well, let's see. Back to when I started to think, "Well, what can I do?" Father said, "Well, you know, how about prison work?" And I said, "No, I'm not going to do that, Father. I'm busy enough and whatever." And he kept … he said he encouraged me, but I think he badgered me. And for one, I said, "Fine, I will go." .And I went to Norfolk Prison, MCI Norfolk. And this was 20 years ago. Wait a minute. Yeah, that's about 20 years ago. I said, "O.K., I'm only going to go one night. That's it. And then, I don't want to hear anything more about it." .So, in those days, you could call a sister at the prison, and you could come right in. Nowadays, it's a different situation. There's a lot of interviews and everything. So, I called, and I said, "You know, I don't …" She said, "Well, yeah, come on over." .So, I went this Monday night, 20 years ago, and they had Mass, and there were 100 guys at MCI [Norfolk] at Mass. And I walked in, and I felt, it was the strangest feeling. It felt like I've done this before. I've been here. I've been here. And I just felt very comfortable. And then, of course, all the way home in the car, I cried. And I thought, "Why … this is ridiculous." But I think what happens when you step out in faith the Lord gives you a love for people, and you can't explain it. It just happens. If you've experienced it, you know what I mean. So, all of a sudden, I love these guys, and I don't even know them. So, I said, "Oh, I have to go back." .So, as a result, for the last 20 years — when it came up to the pandemic, that slowed down, of course, during that period — but up until then, I went Monday and Tuesday — Monday night and Tuesday afternoon — and I love it. And the men are … there again, you don't judge. I just meet them right where they are. I don't care what they did. Right now is where I see them. I bring joy. .A lot of the men don't have families. They're kind of the black sheep in the family, and they love when people come in and take time with them, so they feel like they're, you know, they still can contribute to society within the prison. I encourage them. I really care about them. And then, over the twenty years, I know their families in the waiting room; I get to know them. It's a beautiful experience. I always try to mention to people … just the ministry is … once you try it, you get hooked, and you love it So, yeah, I'm so glad that I did that. That's also a very important part. .Then, when somebody said, "Well, when you think about it, you're helping mothers, and you're helping the men." Yeah, I mean, I never thought of it like that, but once you take that step in faith, right, the Lord will lead you to His people that need to have some encouragement, and that's what I do. I empower women, and I empower the men. I say, "You can do it." You're a missionary here at Norfolk. You're a missionary. And so, yeah, I do encourage them and back to the women. I encourage women, empower them. You say, "Listen, you're pregnant, but you can go to school. You can have the baby. You walk across that stage, and you can hold your boy and get this diploma. You can do it." .Whereas others — the Planned Parenthoods of the world say, "Oh, I don't think so. That's too hard for you." So I guess one thing I do, I never thought of it quite like that, but, yeah, I'm an encourager..New to NewBostonPost? Discover the difference with content that goes beyond the typical Massachusetts news outlets. Stay informed with news and commentary rooted in conservative values—for just $1 a week. Cancel anytime. Don’t wait—join now and see what you’ve been missing!

Five Questions for Eleanor McCullen: Sidewalk Counselor and Pro-Life Advocate

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